One of the graves in Watnall Hall's private burial ground is of Eleanor Tennant, little sister of Sir Lancelot Rolleston. She died on August 12th. 1917 aged 64 and is buried with her husband Robert in the top left Rolleston plot at Watnall, shown below. Her great niece is the English Hollywood-based actress Victoria Tennant.
 |
| The Rolleston private burial ground at Watnall |
Hollywood actress in battle with Church of England to ‘find peace’ and move father’s remains
22rd July 2023 - Court rejects request by Handmaid's Tale's Victoria Tennant
to exhume her father's ashes from a Surrey cemetery and move them to Yorkshire
 |
| Victoria Tennant starred in the 1990 version of The Handmaid's Tale Credit: IMDB |
When the British-born Hollywood actress Victoria Tennant lost her father as a young teenager her grief-stricken family laid him to rest in the cemetery closest to where they lived at the time. But over the years, as she and her siblings grew up and moved elsewhere to start their own lives, they regretted the thought of him lying alone in a Surrey graveyard.
More than half a century later Ms Tennant, who went on to
marry the US comic actor Steve Martin - starring alongside him in All of Me and
LA Story - launched a complex and rare legal action seeking permission to
exhume her father Cecil Gordon Tennant’s remains and move them to a churchyard
in his native Yorkshire.
 |
| Ms Tennant is keen for the remains of her late father to be relocated to St Marys Church in Summer Conistone, Yorkshire Credit: Alamy |
The actress, now 74 and known for her roles in The Winds of War, the Handmaid’s Tale and Best Seller, applied to the Church’s Consistory Court, which has to grant consent for exhumation from consecrated ground, for permission to move her father from Brookwood Cemetery in Woking to St Mary’s churchyard at Coniston, Skipton. Tennant told Consistory Court judge, Sarah Whitehouse KC, the Deputy Chancellor of the Diocese of Guildford, of the “trauma, grief and guilt” the actress and her siblings had experienced at “leaving their father’s ashes abandoned in Brookwood cemetery”, adding that “it does not feel like a spiritual place, and he would not have chosen it for himself”.
Ms Tennant, who was a teenager at the time her father was
killed in a car crash in 1967, said she and her sister, Irina, who was 14 at
the time, and brother Robert, who was 12, had all since moved away from Surrey
and did not wish “to leave their father alone” there.
 |
| Victoria Tennant in 2013 |
Ms Tennant, told the church court that the death of their father, followed by the departure of their mother Irina Baronova, a Russian prima ballerina, to Australia two years later, “destroyed” the family.
She said she felt that some of the trauma would be healed if they could place their father’s ashes in the Yorkshire churchyard and mark the occasion with a service of thanksgiving.
But the court has now turned down her request, in keeping with the Church of England philosophy that a last resting place should be just that unless there are exceptional circumstances or has been a mistake. Consistory Court judge Whitehouse said consent for exhumation is only very rarely given and that there were no exceptional reasons why it should be in this case.
‘A key consideration’
In her ruling the judge commented: “I do not know why this
Petition is only lodged now, after Mr Tennant has rested for so many decades at
Brookwood.”
She said the long passage of time was a key consideration in
the case and no reasons had been given why exhumation was not sought many years
ago if the cemetery at Woking was not considered suitable.
It is understood that Ms Tennant, who lives in Bel Air, Los
Angeles, and has two children from her third marriage to producer Kirk
Stambler, is considering appealing against the ruling to a higher
ecclesiastical body, such as the Court of Arches.
Refusing to grant permission Judge Whitehouse said: “I accept that this Petition arises from a genuine sense that the trauma suffered by the Petitioner and her siblings might be ameliorated by the granting of this Petition. No consistory court could be lacking in sympathy for this family, and the other families of those who have died and who feel that healing and peace of mind may be achieved by exhumation and reburial; and nor can any court fail to recognise the hurt that may be brought about by a refusal of such a petition.”
She added, however: “That is not the test I have to
implement. Burial in a particular space permanently set aside for God is
intended to be forever. This is a principle which must be honoured, and which
can be set aside only in exceptional circumstances and for compelling
reasons.
“The reasons put forward do not meet this threshold and the
very long period that Cecil Tennant has rested in Brookwood presents the
strongest of reasons as to why I am not able to grant this Petition.”
Source - Daily Telegraph - July 2023
 |
| The Tennant memorial at Conistone in Yorkshire |
 |
| Steve Martin and Victoria Tennant in LA Story. They were married when the film was made in 1991 |
Sources -
NEWEST
All Comments
- Comment
by David McDowell.
DM
David McDowell23 July 2023
Seems like an odd request. She isn’t resident in Yorkshire
and there’s no indication that her siblings are either. Isn’t it just that the
church graveyard in Yorkshire is more picturesque and appealing to someone with
‘Hollywood values’?
- Comment
by Kate Robertson.
KR
Kate Robertson23 July 2023
I agree with other Comment. This is an unusual and possibly
mild request. If it’s a full grave below some considerable earth it is very
costly but surely the family are willing to pay and the plot could be re used
Having said that it is all a rather strange romantic ideal
-I will have no memorial or funeral by choice
It was interesting to find a selection of later life friends
from very religious backgrounds agree
I love wandering beautiful graveyards and understand their
importance
‘Enjoyed Trinity in NYC financial district in May. From a
time when the world population was still countable
- Reply
by sylvie baxter.
sb
sylvie baxter23 July 2023
It is ashes not a burial,
- Comment
by Mike Coare.
MC
Mike Coare23 July 2023
Too busy painting rainbows to have any time to show some
compassion.
Bad show...
- Comment
by Rosemary Led.
RL
Rosemary Led23 July 2023
Madness. She lives in Los Angeles.
Good for the Cof E for once.
- Reply
by Kate Robertson.
KR
Kate Robertson23 July 2023
Her siblings don’t. Maybe she was the financial aid
- Comment
by Strangely Browne.
SB
Strangely Browne23 July 2023
We weren't allowed to move my cremated father to be next to
my buried mother within the same churchyard....the diocese wouldn't let us. It
just may have happened anyway by mistake.
- Reply
by Jo Hum.
JH
Jo Hum23 July 2023
Good for you, I'd have done the same thing.
- Reply
by sylvie baxter.
sb
sylvie baxter23 July 2023
What you did a bit of digging when the vicar wasn't looking?
So you didn't dig a hole in your mother's grave you put the ashes 'next' to
your mother which I assume means an empty plot. What happens when they did up
that plot for a burial.
- Comment
by Jo Hum.
JH
Jo Hum23 July 2023
How insensitive. It clearly matters a lot to this family
where their father's remains are buried, moving them does not impact anyone
else whatsoever.
- Comment
by st jo.
sj
st jo23 July 2023
But... she lives in America. If she wanted to be nearer him,
she could move back to the UK.
- Reply
by Jo Hum.
JH
Jo Hum23 July 2023
She wants him buried in a place that he would have chosen. I
too have lost my Dad and completely understand where she is coming from.
- Comment
by Richard Scott.
RS
Richard Scott23 July 2023
Her father isn't there and he won't be in Yorkshire either,
unless I missed something along the way.
- Comment
by Mary Lowrey.
ML
Mary Lowrey23 July 2023
The Church of England citing God! Didn’t think it believed
in him anymore. God wills this final resting place , sanctimonious weasels.
There’s plenty God willed they’ve happily dispensed with.
What’s the harm letting the woman fund the whole damn thing
and settling her young, dead dad in a place to give her peace?
- Comment
by Terry Miles.
TM
Terry Miles23 July 2023
The Church of England soon will be no more.
- Reply
by st jo.
sj
st jo23 July 2023
Yes it's working hard to disprove its own avowed faith.
- Comment
by Thomas Wells.
TW
Thomas Wells23 July 2023
Newsworthy article?? I don’t think so!!
- Comment
by alasdair mackenzie.
am
alasdair mackenzie23 July 2023
As Brookwood is owned by Woking Borough Council, and not the
Church of England, I wonder what the Consistory Court has to do with the
request? Would a Muslim request (there are various religions buried there) have
to go to the same Court? edited
- Comment
by NJ Ratnieks.
NR
NJ Ratnieks23 July 2023
One of my friends chose to be buried at Brookwood and his
grave was in a very beautiful place. Old folks I knew as a child are buried
there in the Latvian cemetery which is also very beautiful.
I hope her father's ashes are in an urn because if they are
in a wooden box, then there will probably be nothing left as the ashes will
dissipate and if they were sprinkled into the ground then they could well have
vanished. I have dug the holes for ashes interments in a country churchyard, so
I know what to expect as often you are adding more ashes and try not to disturb
previous ashes but over time they may well just disappear. edited
- Comment
by S Carlisle.
SC
S Carlisle23 July 2023
It's 56 years since this poor man died and she wants to move
him now because she doesn't want him to be "alone"? Sorry, but that
is just weird and she needs to seek some proper help with her unresolved
issues. Mrs C
- Reply
by Terry Miles.
TM
Terry Miles23 July 2023
It is a bit ridiculous.
- Reply
by sylvie baxter.
sb
sylvie baxter23 July 2023
You are right as a family they appear to have got unresolved
issues over their father's death. As they have got older they have all had more
time to dwell on the past but what does it actually matter that he is in
Brookwood cemetery. He is not even a skeleton, he is a pile of ashes, perhaps
not even his and they may well have disappeared into the earth by now. He is
not there and that should be it for this family.
- Comment
by Peter Dickinson.
PD
Peter Dickinson23 July 2023
The London Necropolis is rather crowded but digging up
remains and depositing them elsewhere seems a little pointless.
- Comment
by Gene Poole.
GP
Gene Poole23 July 2023
What an absolutely ridiculous and pointless controversy.
Gives strong support to the preference for having oneself cremated and
scattered on the wind.
- Reply
by NJ Ratnieks.
NR
NJ Ratnieks23 July 2023
Which reminds me of what a retired naval officer told me of
the pitfalls of scattering the ashes of Old Salts at sea. The wind can be cruel
or contrary and he told me that getting his uniform covered in ashes was not a
welcome outcome.
- Reply
by Ipso Facto.
IF
Ipso Facto23 July 2023
This also happens at the end of Southend Pier.
- Comment
by StephenG Spencer.
SS
StephenG Spencer23 July 2023
I have always found Brookwood and it’s various cemeteries
quite a restful place. At least when Dodi Fayed’s body was moved from there it
was only after a short interval. To move a body after all these decades?
Practically the water table there gets quite high and what state might a coffin
be in after all this time?
- Reply
by sylvie baxter.
sb
sylvie baxter23 July 2023
It is not a body it is ashes.
- Comment
by James Gerry.
JG
James Gerry23 July 2023
THe church of england never misses a pastoral opportunity.
- Comment
by Roger Feraille.
RF
Roger Feraille23 July 2023
"Burial in a particular space permanently set aside for
God is intended to be forever. This is a principle which must be
honoured".
Wow! Yet the Anglican church sets aside the word of God in
the scriptures every day. When is the word of God going to be
"honoured"? edited
- Reply
by Grim Pol.
GP
Grim Pol23 July 2023
Mr or Mrs or even They God?
- Comment
by Gigi Baron.
GB
Gigi Baron23 July 2023
I was hoping to move my grandpa.
Solution is cremation. Churches can lose the burial plot
fees and our loved ones can travel.
22 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Ian Goodson.
IG
Ian Goodson23 July 2023
If the container is wood, there will be little or nothing
left.
- Reply
by sylvie baxter.
sb
sylvie baxter23 July 2023
This was a cremation.
- Comment
by Bill Palmer.
BP
Bill Palmer23 July 2023
What a load of fuss about nothing.
- Comment
by Jane Hannam.
JH
Jane Hannam23 July 2023
I know that church and church yard well it a lovely peaceful
place
- Comment
by Brian Ford.
BF
Brian Ford23 July 2023
It's only the Church of England!
Wave your cheque book and tell the jobsworth you need to
change your father's pronoun.
- Comment
by David Harper.
DH
David Harper23 July 2023
She argued they do not wish “to leave their father alone”
there and yet the applicant lives in LA while her father “resides” in the UK.
If she, in anyway, was religious she would accept that her father is not there.
- Comment
by Stuart Inglis.
SI
Stuart Inglis23 July 2023
Having just returned from Ypres, and visited some of our
fallen soldiers, has put this request in context. As our soldiers are buried
near to where they fell, so should this man stay near to where he died. The
memories may fade, but he should be remembered for who he was, not where he
lies.
22 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Jo Hum.
JH
Jo Hum23 July 2023
Easy to say until it's one of your own family.
- Reply
by Jo Peters.
JP
Jo Peters23 July 2023
This isn't remotely comparable and in fact your comment
makes the argument for this lady - the soldiers fell valiantly, as bodies not
as ashes, in an utterly different context at war for their country, and in a
place where they receive an extraordinary level of respect and devotion. It is
understandable (as the judge pointed out by implication) that this lady would
like her father to be buried in a place which for him was home rather than in
a, for him, alien cemetery - I really hope her appeal succeeds. It's an unusal
request and does it matter if it is occasionally, perhaps rarely, replicated,
if it involves a family showing so much care and devotion, and for the Anglican
church actually to be taken seriously rather than collapsing under the weight
of its own increasing irrelevancy edited
- Comment
by Marie Clarke.
MC
Marie Clarke23 July 2023
I find myself wondering why she has left it so long to be
concerned about where her father is buried. It struck me that something bad or
unhappy may be happening in her life that she can do nothing about, and moving
her father's remains may somehow ameliorate her other unhappiness.
- Comment
by Helen King.
HK
Helen King23 July 2023
Of course this shouldn’t happen, otherwise it would lead to
lots of families wanting loved ones moved around and families arguing about
where the ashes should be. What on earth does it matter? He’s not ‘on his own’,
presumably if they’re really bothered they can go and visit, Surrey isn’t
exactly at the ends of the earth.
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Mousy Dung.
MD
Mousy Dung23 July 2023
Emotions don't come into it. She should have said she's
offended her dad's Ashes are in Surrey, might have got a positive outcome.
- Reply
by Judith Hoffman.
JH
Judith Hoffman23 July 2023
I have to wonder how often His children visit his grave and
if it was moved would they visit more or not at all? When my son died, we
scattered his ashes where he had fallen, it is a beautiful, peaceful spot near
a waterfall in the Oregon wilderness.
When I die I want my ashes scattered somewhere beautiful and
peaceful, or on my flowerbeds!
- Comment
by David Geary.
DG
David Geary23 July 2023
Her request is not to do with woke or diversity issues so it
must be rejected!
- Reply
by minnie argyll.
ma
minnie argyll23 July 2023
But it could be the result of years of therapy she does live
in US so a bit woke
- Reply
by Ellis Gentry.
EG
Ellis Gentry24 July 2023
I resent that. Just as many ‘woke’ in UK.
- Comment
by Paul Butler.
PB
Paul Butler23 July 2023
I was just thinking yesteday about the dogs and cats I have
left buried in previous home gardens. My view is that they were happy in those
places in life so best to leave them.
But from this point we will be going to the pet crematorium.
I am afraid this country has changed so much that nothing is
sacred anymore including a resting place. edited
55 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by John Pavey.
JP
John Pavey23 July 2023
What a miserable, unfeeling, comment in this context.
- Reply
by Bill Palmer.
BP
Bill Palmer23 July 2023
No, just truthful.
- Comment
by George Williams.
GW
George Williams23 July 2023
After 50 yrs there won’t be much left by now. I think the
judge has done theright thing. Equally, non of her family live in Yorkshire so
why move him there ? The world has more important things to think about.
99 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
Please elucidate on precisely which book of the Bible
comments on relocation of remains.
- Reply
by Ellis Gentry.
EG
Ellis Gentry24 July 2023
I do believe Joseph’s bones were moved. It was after the
famine when Joseph (the brother thrown in the pit because his brothers were
jealous of his coat)—saved his family from famine. (beginning in Genesis
37-Genesis 50). Gen 50:25 Then Joseph made the sons of Israel swear, saying,
“God will surely visit you, and you shall carry up my bones from here” (he was
embalmed and buried in Egypt where he had been in service to Pharoah).
It was actually Moses who took the bones during the Exodus
(Exodus 13:19) and Joseph was eventually buried in the Promised Land.
- Comment
by Truth Matters.
TM
Truth Matters23 July 2023
FALSE CHURCH - POLITICO-RELIGIOUS ORGANISATION
If the Church of England was the Biblical Christian church
that it claims to be - rather than purely a user of 'god' for power's sake,
they would do one or both of two things:
1. Explain to Ms Tennant that her father is not 'resting' in
Brookwood cemetary, but has long ago gone either up to Heaven or down to Hell -
depending on where he stood with God at the time of his death. His physical
remains are just so much inert matter - the now burned and powdered shell in
which the real man (his spirit and soul) lived whilst he was here.
2. If she still really wants him moved, let her do it at her
own expense because - on the basis of 1. - all that would be happening would be
that a lump of inert matter was dug up and moved from one part of England to
another, and to an equally respected piece of ground.
Instead it has decided to go with its love of controlling,
feeling significant, and bringing endless low-key misery to millions (as with
hampering divorces and much happier re-marriages) by playing god.
Thank God it is rapidly committing suicide!
Read more
55 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Samuel Peeps.
SP
Samuel Peeps23 July 2023
What a silly thing to assume that I imply we sleep in the
ground 🙈 we rest in bliss ( in whatever form) until
Christ returns when everyone shall give an account of themselves and their
eternal fate is settled.
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
Careful, or you risk riding this latest hobby horse to
death.
- Comment
by Mark Watts.
MW
Mark Watts23 July 2023
Lack of compassion just about sums up the C of E
33 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Truth Matters.
TM
Truth Matters23 July 2023
You need, IMO, a much better argument than that for
prolonging a person's emotional pain endlessly
- Reply
by Lionel Polanski.
LP
Lionel Polanski23 July 2023
I would tend to agree else where, but in this case the
church has got it right. Here you have an over entitled individual with too
much money and no sense to go with it trying to push people around, as stated
earlier they reside in the USA plus as the bible states the soul and spirit
depart the mortal remains and so her ancestor really couldn’t care less.
- Comment
by Thomas Lyons.
TL
Thomas Lyons23 July 2023
She was great in LA Story.
- Comment
by Philip Richards.
PR
Philip Richards23 July 2023
Some of the comments here I find deeply depressing. Some
simply spiteful because she happens to be an actress. What about her siblings?
Don't they and their feelings count for anything?
When my father died, it was important for me and my brother
that our father was laid to rest in his spiritual home. Derbyshire. My brother
lives in the States, I live in Devon. It warms us both to know that his ashes
are where he would want them to be.
Mrs R
66 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Jo Hum.
JH
Jo Hum23 July 2023
Exactly!
- Reply
by Ellis Gentry.
EG
Ellis Gentry24 July 2023
What is left when we die is a shell. The soul has departed.
However, the remains should be handled with respect. Bones or ashes have been
moved many times. This woman’s request is sentimental but in the end it really
matters little. The “church” is the body of Christ worldwide—not to be confused
with the sad CofE. I have heard it said “may the soul of the faithful departed
rest in peace”. God will raise the dead in Christ when he returns to earth in
triump.A God who spoke creation will have no trouble finding our bones or
ashes—wherever they may be.
Let the poor sad woman and her siblings move the dirt if it
brings them any comfort. We live in a cold cruel world and life is hard.
Period. edited
- Comment
by Jerry Markham.
JM
Jerry Markham23 July 2023
I must admit I thought Church Courts had been abolished
hundreds of years ago!
I can understand the rejection of exhuming an uncremated
body, there needing to be considerable digging and disturbance.
However, the removal of a simple urn would be barely
noticeable.
Why not return a Yorkshireman to his home County and his
family?
- Reply
by John Twentyman.
JT
John Twentyman23 July 2023
They are alive and well. Recently one stopped Jesus College
Cambridge from vandalising Tobias Rustat's memorial in their chapel.
- Comment
by Mark Rowley.
MR
Mark Rowley23 July 2023
Depending upon where the ashes were interred, there is also
a real possibility that they would not be able to exhume them intact, so
causing even greater distress. A difficult one to call, but I think the judge
got this one right.
- Comment
by Tracyann Neville.
TN
Tracyann Neville23 July 2023
You can’t allow families to exhume human remains or they’ll
be insisting on it whenever they move house or relocate for work. Remains do
not belong to the family, they belong to the deceased, just as graves do not
belong to families but to the church. This sounds like something an out of
touch, entitled Hollywood type would demand.
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Tracyann Neville.
TN
Tracyann Neville23 July 2023
It would set a precedent that could easily lead to all sorts
of distressing battles where families fall out and are divided as to whether
loved ones should be at rest, many years after death. There is such a thing as
laying the dead ‘to rest.’ That should absolutely be final.
- Reply
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
That’s highly unlikely. How many people are unhappy with
where a parent was buried? And of course in many cases resting places are not
final, particularly if development is in the works.
- Comment
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
What if the family were atheist? Or Muslim or jewish? Would
CofE still rule the day? Or would they be permitted to follow their own
religious leanings or lack thereof?
66 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
No he didn’t decide it on anything because he didn’t decide
period
- Reply
by Helen King.
HK
Helen King23 July 2023
Were they forced to put him in a cofe graveyard then?
- Comment
by Howard Alan Treesong.
HA
Howard Alan Treesong23 July 2023
''Burial in a particular space permanently set aside for God
is intended to be forever. ''
or until the ground is deconsecrated and the developers move
in!
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
Or unless it’s exhumed for some reason.
- Reply
by Philip Richards.
PR
Philip Richards23 July 2023
Or killed in a war and the body later returned?
Mrs R
- Comment
by The Old Brigadier.
TO
The Old Brigadier23 July 2023
I suppose if the person buried was not white and the family
wished to remove he/she to the land of his/her ancestors, the permission would
have been granted immediately.
- Reply
by Tracyann Neville.
TN
Tracyann Neville23 July 2023
No it would not
- Comment
by Frances Craddock.
FC
Frances Craddock23 July 2023
Anything for a bit of publicity. I've been to Brookwood
cemetery a lonely place for the dead it certainly isnt
22 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Barry McMurdock.
BM
Barry McMurdock23 July 2023
You're just back in Ambrosia with Billy Liar aren't you Noel
- what you got up to in the cemetery should stay in the cemetery, don't ya
think?
- Reply
by Bill Palmer.
BP
Bill Palmer23 July 2023
It's a nice place for the living to walk around though. Free
from cyclists and dogs.
- Comment
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
Yet another good reason not to have a state church.
- Reply
by Barry McMurdock.
BM
Barry McMurdock23 July 2023
I agree, back to the status quo pre Henry 8.
- Reply
by Helen King.
HK
Helen King23 July 2023
Were they forced to put him there?
- Comment
by Barry McMurdock.
BM
Barry McMurdock23 July 2023
How arbitrary the law and particularly the judgment of
lawyers.
This word salad "Burial in a particular space
permanently set aside for God is intended to be forever. This is a principle
which must be honoured, and which can be set aside only in exceptional
circumstances and for compelling reasons. The reasons put forward do not meet
this threshold and the very long period that Cecil Tennant has rested in
Brookwood presents the strongest of reasons as to why I am not able to grant
this Petition.” is, in my view, a nonsense. I think it is an exceptional case
and compelling, but what harm would occur in granting the petition, and what
good could come out of it is that balance on which judgment should be applied.
2222 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Aimee Punessen.
AP
Aimee Punessen23 July 2023
I guess that’s not C of E
- Reply
by Barry McMurdock.
BM
Barry McMurdock23 July 2023
...but what is?
- Comment
by Prickly Pair.
PP
Prickly Pair23 July 2023
The judge is wrong. The only ones affected by this is the
family. If they are in agreement and pay the costs then there should be be no
obstacle.
Is the judge saying that Burials are forever? That is
twaddle- they move graves all the time for redevelopment etc. Let the family
have their wish, it is not for this judge to decide what “god” wants either.
- Comment
by Raju Sinha.
RS
Raju Sinha23 July 2023
Sadly, once a death certificate is issued at a particular
location then it cannot be altered, no battle here.
33 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by David Newton.
DN
David Newton23 July 2023
Death certificate is NOTHING to do with this. Nothing at
all. Death certificates are issued in the registration district where the death
occurs.
The only linkage between death certificate and burial is
that normally a death certificate is required before burial or cremation can be
undertaken.
Stop making false linkages and claims.
- Reply
by David Newton.
DN
David Newton23 July 2023
Reply was to the wrong person. Raju Sinha us making the
false linkage.
- Comment
by Jane Weitzmann.
JW
Jane Weitzmann23 July 2023
Since she lives in the USA why is it so important for her
father's ashes to be 'lonely' in Yorkshire rather than Surrey? Silly woman, he
only exists in her heart so where his ashes are is irrelevant.
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Prickly Pair.
PP
Prickly Pair23 July 2023
Not for you to judge her or her heart. She is putting her
world to right as we all often try to do as we get older.
- Reply
by Philip Richards.
PR
Philip Richards23 July 2023
How totally unfeeling of you. Zero empathy.
It was important for me and my brother that our father was
laid to rest in his spiritual home. Derbyshire. My brother lives in the States,
I live in Devon. It warms me to know know that his ashes are where he would
want them to be.
Mrs R edited
- Comment
by Honza Osprycky.
HO
Honza Osprycky23 July 2023
Pure egotism, me, mine, myself and I! I want the remains
now, and this must happen because I want it all, and I want it now! Let her
father rest in peace.
- Reply
by Philip Richards.
PR
Philip Richards23 July 2023
That is exactly what she wants, for him to rest in peace.
Mrs R edited
- Reply
by David Newton.
DN
David Newton23 July 2023
No it isn't. She is doing this for purely selfish reasons.
Purely selfish reasons are not "exceptional" in legal terms. Correct
that she lost and she will lose any appeal as well.
- Comment
by Jane Baker.
JB
Jane Baker23 July 2023
Does anyone really believe that cremation ashes can get
lonely? She should find an elderly person who really is lonely and do something
to help them. That would be a worthwhile way of remembering her father.
- Comment
by Robert Mawby.
RM
Robert Mawby23 July 2023
She should have kept the urn on the sideboard!
It never ceases to amaze me how all of these church types
have such power and antiquated groups that come out of the woodwork to make
these ridiculous decisions!
- Comment
by Louise Brown.
LB
Louise Brown23 July 2023
She sounds like someone with too much time and money on her
hands. I expect her therapist told her to do this. Won't her father be equally
'lonely' in Yorkshire since none of his children live there?
- Comment
by Peter Colak.
PC
Peter Colak23 July 2023
No wisdom of Solomon here so far -- Judges - appalling -
Christian Judges - the mind boggles. Who owns the remains - it would appear the
current owners have no wish to see anyone happy.
For those that think their opinion should carry weight to
approve or disapprove, please check for the splinter n their eye . For the love
of God - may all rest in peace --
66 older replies
show older replies
- Reply
by Al Ecanti.
AE
Al Ecanti23 July 2023
No, the commandments may have been the start but the
guidance they provided has been modified and codified over the years into our
current rule of law. The judgement here in recognising and sympathising with
the families situation has considered the existing law and declined to change
it.
- Reply
by Peter Colak.
PC
Peter Colak23 July 2023
My last word
''Honour thy Father and Mother Eph 6 KJV. If you thought I
would wait for Gods answer, I have most of his at the touch of a key. Priests,
Clergy and Judges do not speak for God. Laws or rules have nothing to do with
this matter. People -- ordinary people laid the foundations for the churches
and it's hallowed ground. Please refrain from voting up an archaic rule to
decide on others on the basis of 'lets nip this in the bud, before everyone
wants to do it'. or can afford it.
- Comment
by S Hargreaves.
SH
S Hargreaves23 July 2023
However it’s ok to exhume graves en mass to make way for HS2
or new retail parks
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Peter Sitch.
PS
Peter Sitch23 July 2023
Care to give an example of the closure of a churchyard for a
retail park
- Reply
by Bill Palmer.
BP
Bill Palmer23 July 2023
So?
- Comment
by Chris Gilmour.
CG
Chris Gilmour23 July 2023
As he's dead, I very much doubt he cares.
- Comment
by John Smith.
JS
John Smith23 July 2023
Ms Tennant, who lives in Bel Air, Los Angeles……there is the
solution. Reunite with your father and be close to him.
- Comment
by Nigel Ashworth.
NA
Nigel Ashworth23 July 2023
If the judge had decided differently then human remains
would be being exhumed and moved around all over the place.
- Comment
by David M A.
DM
David M A23 July 2023
And while we're at it, can we move Richard III to York - an
eternity in Leicester doesn't bear thinking about.
11 older reply
show older replies
- Reply
by Sarah Gash.
SG
Sarah Gash23 July 2023
Surely after so many decades there wouldn't be much to
exhume.
- Reply
by David Broughton.
DB
David Broughton23 July 2023
He was re-buried in 2015.
- Comment
by Steve Smith.
SS
Steve Smith23 July 2023
Amazing waste of money and court time.
If she though her father was ‘lonely’ then she should have
done something about it years ago.
Maybe she could arrange to be buried next to her father when
she passes away.
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
Good advice.
- Comment
by Amanda Malas.
AM
Amanda Malas23 July 2023
If that’s all she’s got to feel ‘grief’ about, lucky her. If
you are a Christian and believe in the perpetuity of the soul, it doesn’t
matter a jot where your human remains are buried, provided it’s in consecrated
ground. As someone once said ‘Cemeteries are places for the living to grieve
and remember’. If she lives in the US, she won’t be visiting her father’s grave
regularly, so what difference does it make in which churchyard his ashes
remain? A sensible ruling - for once.
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
Much ado about nothing.
- Comment
by Alastair Muir.
AM
Alastair Muir23 July 2023
If the deceased gentleman's family all lived in the
Yorkshire village, there might just be a case.
- Comment
by Trudi Greenshields.
TG
Trudi Greenshields23 July 2023
It's understandable that they don't remember, but Brookwood
is actually quite a nice cemetry as cemetries go.
However, the urns provided by crems those days were wooden.
If it's rotted away, his ashes wouldn't be accessable.
- Comment
by John Maskell.
JM
John Maskell23 July 2023
Although Cecil Tennant’s earthly remains are in Surrey his
spirit will be in Yorkshire
- Comment
by Ver Cr.
VC
Ver Cr23 July 2023
He is not alone. He is dead.
Hollywood has infected this poor lady
- Comment
by Keith Punshon.
KP
Keith Punshon23 July 2023
Surely in this case exceptional human compassion should
compel the Church to move the father’s remains to other hallowed ground. They
are grieving and said that they will hold a service, which in itself is a mark
of faith. I hope that the Court of Arches will consider exercising compassion.
Perhaps their Dad would wish this removal as a gift for his kids. This is not a
selfish request. It is an act of love.
- Reply
by Phillip Mason.
PM
Phillip Mason23 July 2023
She lives in America - it's not like she is going to be
popping to the grave every weekend with fresh flowers. And as has been pointed
out - why now???
- Reply
by Carolyn Brown.
CB
Carolyn Brown23 July 2023
There is a great deal about showing compassion in The Bible
and not a lot about following Church rules , I think God's rules and those of
Jesus are foremost.
- Comment
by Robert Catesby.
RC
Robert Catesby23 July 2023
Every age has recognised the importance of keeping a family
together in death. Except this one it seems. It establishes a sense of
legacy. edited
- Reply
by Phillip Mason.
PM
Phillip Mason23 July 2023
To keep the family together, perhaps she could take the
remains to America
- Comment
by David North-Coombes.
DN
David North-Coombes23 July 2023
Given she lives in LA much easier to fly to Heathrow to
visit the grave at Brookwood than to then have to make her way to Yorkshire.
All a bit odd.
- Reply
by Ca Ts.
CT
Ca Ts23 July 2023
Presumably she is making the request on behalf of her
siblings.
- Comment
by Margaret Robinson.
MR
Margaret Robinson23 July 2023
I understand the trauma the family felt when their father
died in tragic circumstances when the children were so young, but surely they
must realise that he is not in that pot of ashes buried in Brookwood cemetery.
He is not lying there conscious, lonely and abandoned.
When the spark of life dies, that is the end of the person’s
bodily existence. The spirit which inhabited that body, if you believe in such
things, has gone.
- Reply
by Phillip Mason.
PM
Phillip Mason23 July 2023
Exactly
- Comment
by Jimmy Christian.
JC
Jimmy Christian23 July 2023
One wonders how much money is being spent on this dispute by
all concerned. Not to mention whether the spirit of the deceased cares —
regarding that, no earthly being will know.
- Comment
by Iain McNab.
IM
Iain McNab23 July 2023
Being spiritual is in the eye of the beholder, but Brookwood
has dukes, field marshalls, famous artists and the disputed remains of an
English king.
- Reply
by Bill Palmer.
BP
Bill Palmer23 July 2023
Freddie Mercury and Dennis Wheatley too. Worth bearing in
mind it is multi- (and non-) denominational. edited
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
Field marshals. Marshall is a name, not a rank.
- Comment
by Carpe Jugulum.
CJ
Carpe Jugulum23 July 2023
If you are sufficiently delusional as to believe anything
individual remains of a person reduced to ashes then it would make more 'sense'
to scamper over there under cover of darkness armed with a headlamp and trowel.
- Reply
by Mr Veen.
MV
Mr Veen23 July 2023
If it’s true that nothing of the individual remains, then
the Church court’s reason for denying the move are nonsensical too. The whole
case is predicated on the fact that both parties believe the remains do have
meaning and significance.
- Reply
by Michael Poland.
MP
Michael Poland23 July 2023
What? Again?
Comments
Post a Comment